Maverick Philosopher

Nihil philosophicum a me alienum puto

To promote independent thought about ultimates. Philosophy, commentary on the passing scene, and whatever else turns my crank. Since 4 May 2004. By William F. Vallicella, Ph.D., Gold Canyon, Arizona, USA. Motto: "Study everything, join nothing." (Paul Brunton) Latin Motto: Omnia mea mecum porto. Turkish motto: Yol bilen kervana katilmaz. (He who knows the road does not join the caravan.) All material copyrighted.

A Dallas Willard-Josef Pieper Connection

I just learned something, thanks to M. Harper. In a comment to yesterday's Pieper post, he notes that Dallas Willard has a understanding of the belief-knowledge relation (or lack of relation) similar to that of Pieper. A little searching brought me to the following passage in Willard's Knowledge and Naturalism which substantiates Harper's suggestion (I have bolded the parts relevant to my current concerns):

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Posted by William F. Vallicella on Thursday December 20, 2007 at 2:18pm
Micah (www):
Perhaps "(dispositionally, occurrently)" should be read as "(either dispositionally or occurrently)".

I can sort of see how one might dispositionally know something without believing it (a Papua New Guinean tribesman, prior to hearing the Gospel, who subsequently recognizes it immediately upon having it related to him?), but I have trouble envisioning the occurrent variety. Maybe the idea is that anything that can be dispositionally known can also be occurrently known?
12.20.2007 6:41pm
C Gadsden (mail) (www):
I haven't read the book, but does he offer any counter-examples to the knoweldge --> belief thesis? I wonder if he is thinking of instances such as a demon's "knowledge" that Jesus is the Son of God, where that demon is not prepared to act as if Jesus is the Son of God.
12.20.2007 7:21pm
Vlastimil Vohánka (mail) (www):
Again, isn't this all only a terminological difference?
12.21.2007 12:20am
Bill Vallicella (mail) (www):
V,

Earlier you suggested that it might be a matter of stipulative definition. But is it a matter of stipulative definition that hens (female chickens)give birth by laying eggs and that female cats do not? No.

Similarly, with belief, knowledge, desire, will, etc. Take 'know.' Can this word be used any old way one pleases? No. It is of the essence of knowledge that anything known is true. That is not a matter of how we choose to use our terms. Our use of terms needs to be brought in line with the way things are independently of language.

Similarly with belief. Does knowledge include belief or does knowledge exclude belief? That is a substantive question.

Suppose someone were to say: By 'knowledge' I mean true belief. I would say he is misusing the word 'knowledge.' Knowledge cannot possibly be identified with true belief, even if knowledge includes belief. For I could have a true belief without having knowledge. I don't know where you live. Suppose I guess that you live in Prague, and you do live there. Then I have a true belief without having knowledge.
12.21.2007 7:09am
Vlastimil Vohánka (mail) (www):
Bill,

I fear the following is too trivial, but I can't help.

1. "Take 'know.' Can this word be used any old way one pleases? No."

Agreed; still, the word can, in principle, be used in several different ways. Especially in different contexts of different philosophical traditions in different eras. And all sides can, in principle, be right.

2. Even if one picks some improper and misleading words for expressing his belief (or the respective proposition), the belief can be true.

3. So, why, according to you, are the points (1) and (2) irrelevant for the claim that the difference between Pieper's (Willard's) definition of knowledge and TJB-definition of knowledge is not a mere quibble or an instance of cross purposes? (TJB: true justified belief, or true justified + ... belief).
12.22.2007 12:02am
Bill Vallicella (mail) (www):
V,

I would have to write a separate post to sort this out. But I do agree that 'know' is used in different ways. For example, the following are different: knowing a person or place, knowing how to do something, and knowing a proposition. One might know all sorts of facts about guitars, or even every fact about every guitar in existence, without knowing how to play the guitar.
12.22.2007 6:13pm
Aaron Snell (mail):
Hi Bill,

I'm a little late jumping into this conversation, but I've been doing some thinking on this lately. I understand the definition of "belief" being used by Willard here to be the so-called dispositional view, contra the state-object view. I see a problem with Willard's presentation, however, and wanted to bounce this off of you to see if I'm on the right track or not.

The problem I see has to do with how Willard defines "belief" here:

Belief I understand to be some degree of readiness to act as if such and such (the content believed) were the case.

It seems he uses the definition of "belief" in the state-object view (that a belief is an accepting or affirming mental state directed at a proposition) to then define "belief" in a dispositional sense, and so seems to be equivocating. If he says, "Belief [let's call this B1] I understand to be some degree of readiness to act as if such and such (the content believed [B2]) were the case," his B1 relies on B2 and thus can't be the same thing as B2. In other words, he is saying that there is propositional content that one can believe (i.e., mentally affirm, using B2), but it is one's readiness to act such a belief (B2) is what he is calling "belief" (B1).

This tells me that B2 is the more basic definition of "belief" and that B1 is something different altogether.

Am I missing something here, or am I on to something?
12.27.2007 12:02pm
Bill Vallicella (mail) (www):
Happy New Year, Aaron.

Yes, there is a distinction between dispositional and occurrent belief. I can be said have to beliefs even when I am in a dreamless sleep in the sense that, were you to wake me up and ask me, say, whether coyotes use GPS devices, I would say no. This example seems to show that we have beliefs that we never actually 'enact.'

The quotation from Willard suggests to me that he thinks of beliefs as purely dispositional. But I don't know since I haven't read enough of his work. Note that there can be a content believd even if there is no occurrent mental act trained upon the content. When I am sleeping dreamlessly or drugged or under anaesthesia the beliefs I have have the same content as when I am awake and 'enacting' them. I don't have time now to be really clear, but maybe this helps.

In other words, if Willard is thinking of beliefs as purely dispositional he can still ascribe content to them without getting into the trouble you mention.
12.27.2007 4:58pm